Collaboration for sanity

Friends, I am delighted to post here comments from a woman who responded to a discussion on authentic modesty begun below. This is essential for reasons I'll post after her comments.

As a Muslim woman living in Switzerland trying to promote progressive thinking within Islam, I completely agree with Dr Elham Mane'as stated opinion in her article published April 24th, 2006 on the veil issue. As a matter of fact, the lately predominant religious discourse holds all power of interpretation of the sacred texts, and pretends that "normal" believers are not entitled to undertake any kind of critical and independant thinking and rethinking of the religious main sources Qur'an and Hadith. He, the religious discourse claims absolute and exclusive authority on any issue concerning Islam. 

The hijab case as a matter of fact shows the dimensions of a word to word interpretation of a so called "duty" on Muslim women. If it really were a main duty why didn't God decide to add it to the five pillars and make it a "sixth" one? What we can witness today is that men - this is to be understood literally - have factually converted what was once meant to protect the wives of the prophet into a prescription for every woman.

This interpretation is completely  lacking - as so many other traditional scholastic interpretations do - the historical context in which the qur'anic text has been revealed. It  does neither consider the actual time of revelation of the sourate the hijab is based upon: mainly 24//31 and 33/59. Without going into deeper theological discussion, we must know that mainly 33/59 has been revealed in the late years of Mohammed's life, it addresses the female members of his household. In order to protect them from male agression taking place outside the house, they had to wear the jilbab,  resembling the Morrocan tunika men wear today, by far the opposite of that which became the black universal Muslim women’s "uniform,” a dress that turns women into monsters. 

So the final question is what was this hijab all about? It was [created] for protective purposes. But nowadays we live in civilised societies in which women and men are or at least should be acting and behaving on equal grounds. The hijab is no longer necessary because it exposes Muslim women rather then protect them (at least in non-Muslim countries). And by the way, why can men not pull themselves together and take their share of responsibility in respecting women the way God has created them and the way Mohammed had called them to do? 

When Muslims argue that hijab prevents the world from falling apart "as it happened or is happening in the West" then they take up the discourse of the pre-Islamic period, where, as we are taught, people seem to have behaved rather roughly towards one another. I think we have all experienced what the covering of women makes out of the male society of the Muslim world: the amount of "oversexualisation" is so evident. 

What we need as Muslims is to rethink our religion under the perspective of enlightement and pluralism, which by the way determined Islam for a very long period until the 13th century. I wish I had lived at that time, when open discussion and diversity were at hand. Hopefully we could regain these capacities. I am quite positive about it, with women like Elham Mane’a speaking out, this is a  promising step in the right direction.

I want to make two points here. First, I applaud the writer, Jasmina el-Sonbati, for appealing to the original revelation to find what God's will might have been in his discourse with Mohammed. Only with respect to such revelation can respect be shown to the concept of "God revealing truth," which is how we know His mind.

We have to caution both Christians and Muslims from rejecting the notion that revelation is to be honoured -- for modernism can strike anywhere, at the heart of any religion. Modernists assume that revelation is inspired/invented by man and can be rewritten when the mood strikes: wrong and bad.

Secondly, it is essential that we take note that the current culture war has three participants, not two (as noted to Tony in the comments here). Both radical Islam and western depravity are to be rejected. Faithful Muslims must cling to their faith -- even its excesses -- because many convince them that it's the only alternative to Hollywood and its dung heap of aggressive licentiousness.

The third way insists on respect for the family, purity, faith, and the integrity of all peoples. See how cleverly the Dark Forces pit two lies against one another to destroy mankind's chance to embrace truth.

I firmly believe, for all the reasons I've listed previously on this site, that women are called to restore a culture of life through authentic femininity. I welcome the chance to discuss this with all women of good will. There is so much that unites us, not the least of which are the affections of maternal hearts that sincerely want our societies to flourish and glorify God.

[My only dispute with Jasmina at this point is that I am very glad that she is living now. She has responded heroically to discuss an essential topic which has the potential of helping a great number of people!]

Comments

[Paula]

I think modesty comes from within. It is more how you treat yourself then any item of clothing. You can be completely naked, but treat yourself as a thing of beauty to be respected, and be modest. You can be completely covered, but behave in a base way showing yourself disrespect,and be immodest. When you respect yourself, you are naturally modest. No veil or hijab can MAKE anyone modest or safe.

[Jamie]

Jasmina,

I applaud you on your comments. I agree with Paula that modesty comes from within. A good and holy woman is not made by the traditional clothing she wears. As you pointed out she stands out as an easy target, and is not hidden for protection. Of course on would still need to decide to dress modestly, but I don't think that thought was in uestion.There is so much the Muslim and Christian faiths share,and reaching an authentic dignity of women and all mankind is a goal we must all continue to discuss.

[Anne]

Hmm. I agree and disagree with both Paula and Jamie.

I do agree that a girl (I'm 21 and about-to-be-married, but I still feel strange sometimes calling myself a woman!) can be covered head to toe and still behave in an impure fashion, but I think this is quite a phenomanon today. I have yet to see such a thing, although it may have something to do with the fact that I am in college.

Back in the Garden of Eden, before the fall, Adam and Eve could walk around without clothes because here was no sin. But no matter how dignified, or respectful of myself I am, if I walked out my door onto my college campus right now with no clothes on....I would NOT be respected as a unique creation, I would be lusted after. And no guy would believe that I have "inward virtue" (trust me I know...after beginning a new, chaste life, I wore a rather scanty bikini to the beach and was treated as an object, despite my insistence to the contrary) Bottom line. Are men responsible for their thoughts, lustful or no? Of course, but I am to a degree responsible as well for thoughts I stir up.

We have to come to grips with the fact that in our culture, to be a woman, and to get attention, you have to dress "sexy"...which is most often immodest. So my friends and I, that's what we did. We dressed for the attention...for the hopes that some guy will think "wow she's hot...i wouldn't mind getting with her..." Is this respectful of myself? No way. But I was told by Cosmo that THIS is what I wanted...it would make me feel happy and empowered. Well it didn't and it doesn't.

Since I began to dress modestly (and it's HARD for sure) my self-respect has grown. I also stopped having problems with my body image (go figure!! I'm not on display 24-7) and when I look in the mirror I am happy with the way I look (let me say...not to be prideful but to make a point...I am (and have been for a long time) 5'6 and 120 pounds). For me, dressing modestly began at the same time my then-boyfriend, now-fiance decided to be CHASTE...and the way I dressed helped to remind me and him of that decision.

It's not that I am ashamed of my body. Far from it, I love it. But I just know that there are parts of it that are SO sacred that they are meant for one man's eyes only, the man who will promise to love me in a self-sacrificing way when we take our marriage vows. Jason Everette makes a beautiful point about a woman's stomach....it is precious because that is the womb...that is our tabernacle. And if you look at a high altar in a Catholic Church at the tabernacle where Our Lord is kept...it is veiled, not for shame, but because it is so sacred and holy.

In a world without original sin, I could walk out my door right now with little or no clothes on, and men would respect my inherent dignity, but we have original sin. I think that the way a woman dresses calls others around her to dignity. I know this firsthand, I have seen the way I am treated now as opposed to the way I was treated when I dressed immodestly. I don't think we need to wear shapeless jumpers, I think a guy should be able to handle himself when I'm wearing a pair of jeans and a t-shirt, and as far as covering our heads....I wear a chapel veil when I am at Mass. But that has to do with helping me foster humility and obediance...and it also created some nice "personal space" between my Lord and I!

So while I agree that modest clothes does not automatically make one modest, it certainly helps. This is not about "one or the other"...we should dress in a way that reflects our inward virtue, and I firmly believe that inward virtue will lead to outward modesty.

[Devin Rose]

I don't know how to communicate it, but I think it would be awesome for Muslims (and Christians for that matter) to read "Love and Responsibility" by John Paul II (written before he became the pope).

In this book, he relies primarily on philosophical reasoning rather than Christian revelation to explain how men and women must strive to chastely love one another, placing the value of the person over that of the value of the body and sex.

Both men and women need to grow in the virtue of chastity! Men must learn to respect and protect women, and women must learn to respect themselves and appreciate their God-given dignity. Our culture, especially in the United States, attacks this virtue with temptations to lust at every opportunity. But with the grace of God, we CAN become men and women of purity!

[Ruth D. Lasseter]

This discussion is exactly what is needed for a truly feminine understanding of the theology of the body, and who better to carry on the discussion but us women of all faiths?
When our first baby was born (the first of 6)I would gaze at the tiny little baby at my breast and think about all the other new mothers of the world; my heart went out to them; I thought, "they all must feel about their babies this same secret, awesome love that I feel for mine." In that moment, a longing to help -- and be helped by -- other women in achieving true service of love for children and family was born. And one of the first things about which we must find common ground is that none of us want our children to grow up to be lost, miserable, and twisted; none of us wants our child to grow up to be a suicide, whether by a bomb-vest or by the despair of moral ruin.
In this very good exchange about achieving modesty, I would put forth to all women that we are called to bring beauty into the world and to serve love --love as charity, as friendship, as selfless giving. Love and beauty must be reflected in all actions and dress, and it is high time that we women, of every age and faith, took our responsibility seriously and thoughtfully --rather than follow skanky fashion trends or throw a tent over our persons.
If we women are charged most particularly with the bringing of love and beauty into the world -- the world of our marriages and families -- how can we do it? Can our homes be havens of peace and harmony? Our dress reflect beauty and modest womanhood? If we can put on the "seamless garment" that includes chastity, fruitful and faithful marriage, protection of life, sanctity of family ties, and natural family planning, then happiness in marriage and family life are not far behind. People -- both men and women -- have been dragged through the gutter long enough by the promoters of sodomy, pornography, abortion, lust, and betrayal; all that has been tried and it has not made us happier or more virtuous. Our choices should reflect our values, should be an outward and visible sign of the inward and spiritual grace that is our secret -- our love that is contained within the love of God. That which we love, we serve with our bodies, and so love-as-eros is called to be exalted, lifted up into the very reflection of the Divine Love. What a privilege! We as women are the ones to lead the way, as we help one another and as we teach our men and our children. Our common meeting as women of all faiths is more fruitful as we look to the models of our femininity and our faiths; may Mary the mother of God and Fatima, beloved daughter of the Prophet, help us in our discussion.