I love my elder brothers in the faith, but is this really what they spend their time debating?
The Mishnah in Horiyos (13a) states: A man comes before a woman in matters of life (le-hachayos) and to return a lost item, and a woman comes before a man for clothing and redemption from captivity.
The implication of the first item is that if a man and woman are drowning, one should save the man first and then the woman. This has practical implications in triage situations. When, for example, EMTs are called for two emergencies at the same time and have to decide which one to pursue, should they always take the call for man over the woman? Or when an ER doctor has to decide which patient to treat first, should he always take that man before the woman?
Two great recent posekim address this issue in different ways: R. Moshe Feinstein answers by limiting the rule in the Mishnah while R. Eliezer Waldenberg rejects it entirely...
I found at least two blogs debating it seriously, and the minutiae they used to justify "men first" or "women first" were rather funny. Obviously, if it matters and will affect triage or a drowning situation (one blog debated whether to save a woman or man first from drowning and why) then it needs to be hashed out well in advance so they know what to do under pressure. But really ... ?
Warren Farrel, in The_Myth_of_Male_Power argues that, historically at least, men have been more expendable than women. That's why we send them off to war. That's why we send them to dig in the ground. That's why we ask men to do hard things that are dangerous, not just because they are statistically bigger and stronger, but because we don't really need them as much as we need the women.
That's why we it's women and children first when loading up the lifeboats. Men who do not sacrifice themselves, or are unwilling to sacrifice themselves, are not men in the cultural sense. Men who insist on putting themselves in the lifeboat while a woman goes down with the ship are labeled "cowards."
I'm not sure what that Mishnah is talking about.
Posted by: Dennis | Friday, 02 February 2007 at 07:04 AM
The other site (http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/) says:
"Aplogetics aside, the intent of the mishna seems clear. When the ship sinks, save the men first. Why would this be? let me suggest the following answer. Men either were or had the potential to be Torah scholars; women did not. Therefore, the rabbis ruled that men – i.e., the Torah – must be saved first."
(Of course without women, the torah scholars wouldn't have the next generation to pass it to, but that's not the immediate point.)
Posted by: gsk | Friday, 02 February 2007 at 07:57 AM